46 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1997, Canada

Journals of the Senate

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Issue 23

Thursday, November 27, 1997
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

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The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk, Angus, Bacon, Beaudoin, Bonnell, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Cochrane, Cogger, Cohen, Comeau, Cools, Corbin, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Doyle, Fairbairn, Forest, Forrestall, Gigantès, Grafstein, Grimard, Hébert, Hervieux-Payette, Jessiman, Johnson, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lucier, Lynch-Staunton, MacDonald, Maheu, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phillips, Poulin, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rossiter, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stanbury, Stewart, Stollery, Tkachuk, Whelan, Wood

PRAYERS

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Tabling of Documents

The Honourable Senator Carstairs tabled the following:

Final Report of the Commission of Inquiry on the Blood System in Canada (The Honourable Mr. Justice Horace Krever, Commissioner) dated November 1997.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-273.

Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees

The Honourable Senator Hébert presented the following:

THURSDAY, November 27, 1997

The Committee on Selection has the honour to present its

FOURTH REPORT

Pursuant to Rule 85(1)(b) of the Rules of the Senate, your Committee submits herewith the list of Senators nominated by it to serve on the Special Joint Committee on Child Custody and Access.

The Honourable Senators Bosa, Cohen, Cools, DeWare, Ferretti Barth, Jessiman and Pearson.

Your Committee recommends that a message be sent to the House of Commons informing that House of the names of the Honourable Senators appointed to serve on the part of the Senate on this Committee.

Respectfully submitted,

JACQUES HÉBERT

Chairman

The Honourable Senator Hébert moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gigantès, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Stewart, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs, presented its Third Report (Bill C-22, An Act to implement the Convention on the Prohibition of the Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and on their Destruction) without amendment.

The Honourable Senator Corbin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lucier, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations

The Honourable Senator Carstairs tabled the following:

Report of the visit of a Senate delegation in the People's Republic of China, from October 8 to 16, 1996.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-274S.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kirby, seconded by the Honourable Senator Whelan, P.C., for the second reading of Bill C-11, An Act respecting the imposition of duties of customs and other charges, to give effect to the International Convention on the Harmonized Commodity Description and Coding System, to provide relief against the imposition of certain duties of customs or other charges, to provide for other related matters and to amend or repeal certain Acts in consequence thereof.

After debate,

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the second time.

The Honourable Senator Kirby moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Whelan, P.C., that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Moore, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth, for the second reading of Bill C-16, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the interpretation Act (powers to arrest and enter dwellings).

After debate,

In amendment, the Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Sparrow, that the motion be amended by deleting all the words after "That" and substituting the following therefor:

"Bill C-16, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Interpretation Act (powers to arrest and enter dwellings), be not now read a second time because

(a) the Senate is opposed to the principle of a bill which has been placed before Parliament as a result of the judgment of the Supreme Court of Canada of May 22, 1997, and of the Court's Orders of June 27 and November 19, 1997;

(b) the Senate finds it repugnant that the Supreme Court is infringing on the sovereign rights of Parliament to enact legislation and is failing to respect the constitutional comity between the courts and Parliament; and

(c) the Court is in effect coercing Parliament by threatening chaotic consequences respecting law enforcement and arrests if Parliament does not pass this bill."

After debate,

The Speaker reserved his decision on the acceptability of the motion in amendment.

A Point of Order was raised on the right of the Speaker to decide the acceptability of the amendment proposed by the Honourable Senator Cools without receiving a Point of Order requesting him to do so.

Debate.

SPEAKER'S RULING

Honourable senators, I would refer you to rule 18(1), to which the Honourable Senator Kinsella referred. I read from the middle of rule 18(1), which states:

Furthermore, the Speaker shall be authorized to act on his or her own initiative to interrupt any debate to restore order or to enforce the Rules of the Senate.

Obviously there is no question of order, but there is a question of the Rules of the Senate. Was the proposal that was made in order and within the Rules of the Senate of Canada?

I questioned whether it was within the Rules of the Senate. My comment was that this was a rather unusual proposal, one that we have not heard before. I am not sure whether it is within the Rules of the Senate. Under rule 18(1), I am authorized to review the matter. That is the responsibility assigned to me, and that is what I was assuming.

Of course, honourable senators are always in control of what happens in the Senate. I was operating under the instructions in the rule book, rule 18(1).

On that basis, unless honourable senators wish to overrule me, I maintain that I must look into this proposal to see if it is within the Rules of the Senate.

There is no need to adjourn the debate. If honourable senators are agreed, the matter is under advisement, and I will return to you when I have looked at the question.

I repeat that the Senate is the master of its own rules. If it is the wish of honourable senators at this time to say they want to proceed, that is perfectly in order. My suggestion is that we follow the Rules of the Senate.

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Ordered, That the Order for the third reading of Bill C-22, set down on the Orders of the Day for the next sitting, be brought forward. Third reading of Bill C-22, An Act to implement the Convention on the Prohibition of the Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and on their Destruction.

The Honourable Senator Corbin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lucier, that the Bill be read the third time.

After debate,

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the third time and passed.

Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill, without amendment.

The Honourable the Speaker informed the Senate that a communication had been received from the Secretary to the Governor General.

The Communication was then read by the Honourable the Speaker as follows:

RIDEAU HALL

November 27, 1997

Mr. Speaker:

I have the honour to inform you that the Honourable Peter deC. Cory, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy Governor General, will proceed to the Senate Chamber today, the 27th day of November, 1997, at 4:00 p.m. for the purpose of giving Royal Assent to certain Bills.

Yours sincerely,

Judith A. LaRocque

Secretary to the Governor General

The Honourable
The Speaker of the Senate
Ottawa

Motions

Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Reports of Committees

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Pépin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lucier, for the adoption of the Report of the Special Joint Committee to Amend Section 93 of the Constitution Act 1867 concerning the Quebec School System, deposited with the Clerk of the Senate on November 7, 1997.

Debate.

Pursuant to Rule 135(8), the proceedings were interrupted to resume after Royal Assent.

ROYAL ASSENT

The Senate adjourned during pleasure to await the arrival of the Honourable the Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General. After awhile, the Honourable Peter deC. Cory, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General, having come and being seated at the foot of the Throne-

The Honourable the Speaker commanded the Usher of the Black Rod to proceed to the House of Commons and acquaint that House that:-

"It is the desire of the Honourable the Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General that they attend him immediately in the Senate Chamber."

The House of Commons being come, One of the Clerks at the table then read the titles of the Bills to be assented to as follows:

An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Bill C-13, Chapter 32, 1997)

An Act to implement the Convention on the Prohibition of the Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and on their Destruction (Bill C-22, Chapter 33, 1997).

To these Bills the Royal Assent was pronounced by the Clerk of the Senate in the following words:-

"In Her Majesty's name, the Honourable the Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General doth assent to these Bills."

4:13 p.m.

The Commons withdrew. After which the Honourable the Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General was pleased to retire.

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The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Pépin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lucier, for the adoption of the Report of the Special Joint Committee to Amend Section 93 of the Constitution Act 1867 concerning the Quebec School System, deposited with the Clerk of the Senate on November 7, 1997.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator DeWare for the Honourable Senator Bolduc moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

OTHER BUSINESS

Senate Public Bills

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Reports of Committees

Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting. Consideration of the Fifth Report of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration (budgets-certain committees), presented in the Senate on November 20, 1997.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs for the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C. moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stanbury, that the Report be adopted.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Other

Orders No. 1 (motion), 5 (inquiry) and 3 (motion) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

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With leave, The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.

With leave of the Senate,

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Moore:

That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday next, December 2, 1997, at 2:00 p.m.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poulin:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

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